EV3 in Conversation with Starpower: How DePIN Is Reshaping Trillion-Dollar Traditional Industries
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EV3 in Conversation with Starpower: How DePIN Is Reshaping Trillion-Dollar Traditional Industries
The founders of DePIN are like "cockroaches"—they never give up, continuing to build no matter how the market fluctuates.
Navigating Web3 tides with focused insightsThink contrarian! EV3 was the only VC fully committed to DePIN in 2022, heavily investing in energy and communication—the two core DePIN sectors—and is also the angel investor behind Starpower.
In this interview, Laser invites Sal, Co-Founder of EV3, for an in-depth discussion on the origins and future of DePIN. They share their career journeys, market insights, and outlooks. This is an inspiring conversation that reveals how DePIN is reshaping traditional industries through blockchain technology.
Audio recording and transcription generated by GPT—please expect some inaccuracies. Listen to the full podcast:
Starpower YouTube: https://youtu.be/mtIU0jBgsGI
Opening & Background Introduction
Laser Hi Sal! It’s a pleasure to have you on this episode to share your story. I’d love for our listeners to get to know more about EV3 and about you personally. We first met about two years ago, around February or March in Denver. At that time, DePIN had just been coined by Messari, and few people truly understood what it meant. Now it's become very popular. To start off, could you introduce yourself, your background, what brought you to EV3, what you're working on at EV3, and your outlook on the current market—especially the next year?
Sal Absolutely! First of all, thank you so much for having me, Laser. Getting to know you and watching Starpower grow over these past two years has been an honor. Let me briefly introduce myself. My partner Mahesh and I co-founded a company called EV3—short for Escape Velocity. We've been focused on investing in and building within the DePIN space for over two years now. In fact, we were already active before the term "DePIN" even existed. Our motivation stems from years of experience in crypto, where we led investments in DeFi, Layer 1s, and other ecosystem areas at major investment firms. By late 2021 and early 2022, we noticed dozens of massive global industries—like energy, wireless communication, and transportation—facing huge coordination challenges.
Blockchain research offered potential solutions to these coordination problems, but few were thinking about applying it to real-world industries. Founders were exploring ideas, but investors weren’t paying attention, leaving founders underfunded. That’s why we launched EV3—we raised a seed fund specifically to help new DePIN founders launch companies and realize their visions. Over the past two years, we’ve invested in about 20 different projects across nearly every subcategory of DePIN.
We’re also actively working to position DePIN as a central pillar of the crypto ecosystem and community because we believe it deserves that status. We host the annual DePIN Summit, and we’ve been honored to welcome you, Laser, both times. We also run an analytics platform called DePIN Ninja, along with various initiatives supporting the growth of the DePIN community.
Sal’s Career Journey: From Finance to DePIN
Laser Can you tell us more about yourself? Most of our audience comes from the DePIN space and knows EV3—but who are you personally?
Sal Sure. I’m originally from Venezuela and got exposed to Bitcoin early on. At the time, Venezuela was going through hyperinflation, while Bitcoin was experiencing one of its bull runs. I met my co-founder during an internship at Goldman Sachs in college. Later, we worked together in the investment banking division for two years, focusing on M&A, IPOs, and debt financing.
After gaining deep exposure to capital markets, we realized that ultimately, many of these issues boil down to coordination problems—one that protocols can solve far more efficiently. In fact, it wasn't bankers or financiers who cracked the code, but software developers. This realization sparked our obsession with venture capital and tech ecosystems, especially how engineers and developers could better address these systemic inefficiencies. Clearly, the approach taken by Goldman and other large institutions wasn't sustainable or productive. There was too much “make-work” without real output or benefit to billions globally.
Eventually, I left Goldman and joined Ribbit Capital in Palo Alto. They were among the earliest institutional investors in Bitcoin and backed Coinbase and Robinhood in their Series A rounds. They also invested in numerous fintech startups that later became major players globally.
During my time there, I began seeing parallels between early-stage fintech and what DePIN represented in 2022. While I didn’t live through the 2012 fintech wave, DePIN in 2022 felt exactly like what the Ribbit team described back then—a nascent field with clear potential to disrupt multi-trillion-dollar industries.
I sensed that many software developers and entrepreneurs believed they could challenge these entrenched legacy industries. They needed funding, and this presented a compelling opportunity to build a firm dedicated to empowering such founders. For Ribbit, it was fintech; for us at EV3, it’s DePIN. That’s the core inspiration behind our decision to focus exclusively on supporting DePIN founders in the early years of EV3.
Core Areas of DePIN and Future Development
Laser I know you mentioned your early experiences at Ribbit. We all know Ribbit is a well-known firm—they famously missed Ethereum, right? It sounds like your time at Ribbit shaped your thinking around fintech, which then led you to find your own version of fintech: DePIN. So, I imagine you have your own philosophy and methodology for identifying your “North Star.” Could you share with listeners what gives you such confidence? About three years ago, when DePIN wasn’t even named as a category, you were already fully committed. What made you so certain this would become a dominant narrative and the right direction?
Sal I think there are two key factors. First, we simply followed great founders. We were fortunate to be involved early in the Helium community. Many people who went on to operate or launch DePIN projects were part of that ecosystem—some were miners, others ran hardware manufacturing companies.
They discovered crypto through Helium’s explosive growth in 2021. Through that, we got to meet many talented individuals. We observed that after seeing Helium succeed, many capable founders started asking: “Hey, can I apply this model to an industry I know?” or “Can I achieve similar outcomes using a different method?” Especially in early to mid-2022, Helium’s network grew rapidly, giving us a strong signal: follow these passionate founders, because their enthusiasm is genuine.
So really, we just followed them—we don’t take much credit for that.
From an investor mindset, wireless communication was one of the first domains that revealed DePIN’s potential to me. Today’s three major DePIN verticals—wireless, energy, and mobility—each represent a form of “movement”: wireless moves electromagnetic signals, energy moves electricity, and transportation moves physical mass. Among these, wireless is the simplest and most naturally aligned with DePIN infrastructure.
Wireless signals can travel through any medium—air, water—and have no weight constraints. Therefore, if you want to build a node network, mesh networks for wireless are the easiest to implement.
Helium’s IoT network is a powerful example. These LoRa devices can transmit signals over miles, communicate with each other, and reach consensus—such as determining which nodes are online and their locations—through signal exchange and triangulation.
When you scale this pattern across the global economy, you see that traditional telecom operators face immense structural challenges. Due to zoning regulations, they often cannot build towers where they’re most needed, leading to insufficient network density. Meanwhile, user data consumption increases by 30%-40% annually, yet these companies can’t charge proportionally more. This makes unit economics extremely difficult—especially when telcos carry heavy debt loads.
Moreover, almost no users—whether residential or mobile—are satisfied with their connectivity providers. These companies also lack agility to innovate or launch new products quickly. Hence, we believe decentralized wireless networks can expand faster initially, enable peer-to-peer node communication, and eliminate the need for centralized management layers.
This model benefits the billions dissatisfied with current services while addressing the commercial weaknesses of incumbents. If decentralized wireless proves successful, it could become a multi-trillion-dollar asset class. That conviction drove us to dive deeply into this space and understand its mechanics and scalability.
As we dug deeper, we realized that although energy and transportation appear harder and may take longer, they offer similar network effects—not just economies of scale based on infrastructure.
So we expanded our investment scope to include mapping, energy, logistics, even healthcare and identity. We constantly ask: what will be the next successful area in DePIN? And how can we support and accelerate its development?
Laser
It sounds like you studied the details of Helium’s wireless use case closely, and from there, you saw how blockchain, Web3, and crypto could replicate this model in other fields—energy, mapping, RTK, etc. Over the past two years, through our conversations, I’ve come to see you as someone with deep insight—you enjoy diving deep into specific topics and thoroughly understanding an industry. So, how do you balance deep research across so many DePIN subfields while making sound decisions in each?
Sal
Well, we were lucky to enter this space very early, allowing us to deeply explore multiple domains in 2022 and 2023 before most other investors noticed.
We hold a core belief: investors shouldn’t try to outsmart founders. Founders are closer to customers and innovation—they usually see the future earlier, sometimes by six months, a year, or even longer. But if you're mentally prepared, you can shorten that gap from six months to three. By maintaining close relationships with founders—like ours—it helps us keep pace.
Our views on investment categories evolve. Some areas we once liked, we changed our minds on; others we initially ignored, we later became excited about. One constant is market size—not just today’s size, but its long-term potential. Many overlook this. Some DePIN networks are technically solid but poor venture opportunities. Take amateur radio (Ham Radio), for instance—a niche global network with maybe 10,000 to 15,000 enthusiasts. Someone might build a DePIN project for it someday—that could be cool. But the total opportunity might cap at $10–20 million, not trillions. Yet that’s what DePIN can achieve over sufficient time. So when choosing domains, we assess the ultimate market size and what important things can be built atop it. Wireless and energy are foundational because they underpin everything else.
Demand for new wireless or energy capacity is virtually limitless—has been since humans mastered these technologies. These are clearly the largest markets, yet the hardest to crack. The real question is whether you can build a good product within them. Sensor networks, for example, are complex due to diverse sensor types and overlapping data. Our internal view is that visual data—cameras—are the most powerful sensors. With enough cameras and proper data processing, you can infer weather, precise location, noise levels, and more. So we carefully evaluate how useful deployed hardware is and how many people can derive value from it. Wireless provides internet access—extremely valuable. Batteries store energy and release it when needed—their utility is nearly infinite. Weather sensors, by contrast, have limited use cases and users.
Overall, we focus our time on markets with enormous future potential or those already massive today.
Investment Philosophy and Founder Selection
Laser So you pick large markets requiring focus—like wireless and energy—then identify the right talent within those subdomains, correct? Got it. Next question: what criteria do you use to select the “right people” or “right founders”?
Sal That’s a tough one. We’ve only been running EV3 for two years, and before that, worked at other firms for several years. VC feedback loops are long—8 to 10 years—to know if the founders you backed built something exceptional. So it’s too early to judge whether we’re good at picking founders. But we have early signals suggesting we’re on the right track.
For founders, I believe resilience is paramount. That’s one reason I love working in DePIN. Mahesh and I often say DePIN founders are like “cockroaches”—they never give up. No matter market conditions, they keep building. They must be incredibly resilient because raising funds and educating people about this space has been extremely hard over the past few years.
So if a founder is highly resilient, ambitious, and doesn’t burn cash recklessly, that combination is usually powerful. They can run many experiments, iterate quickly, and avoid failure due to runway exhaustion. I believe such founders tend to succeed.
Resilience overcomes many shortcomings—lack of connections, weak management skills, or poor networks. We look closely at whether a founder achieved remarkable results with limited resources. When we see signs of adaptability and grit, especially in DePIN, that’s our strongest signal to back them.
This can be challenging at the seed stage, as the company may not exist yet. But we always look for clues in a founder’s background—did they show extraordinary persistence, refusing to abandon their project? Did they accomplish a lot under severe resource constraints? Seeing these traits tells us this is someone worth backing and partnering with.
Laser
Once you’ve found the “right person,” do you focus on specifics like revenue, business model, etc., or do you maintain a supportive relationship with periodic updates?
Sal
You mean after investing?
Laser
Yes
Sal
After investment, we typically work closely with founders, especially on planning. A key aspect of VC is maximizing efficiency with limited resources. On one hand, you need enough capital to experiment and pursue ambitious goals; on the other, clarity on strategic direction is essential.
We don’t get involved in day-to-day CEO operations, nor should we. But we do three things. First, help define clear long-term goals and milestones. For a seed-stage company, we can clearly map out critical milestones needed to reach Series A, then work backward to ensure the company is positioned advantageously with buffer room to achieve them.
Second, make genuine long-term bets. While you must consider the next funding round to avoid a cash crunch, that shouldn’t be the sole objective. The real goal is building a unique product with a 10-year moat. Decisions should strengthen that moat, not just optimize for short-term gains.
Therefore, it’s crucial for founders to understand they can make decade-long bets alongside us—even when other investors push for quick token launches or specific revenue targets.
Third, something particularly relevant in Web3 venture: Web3 is still young, and many lack experience building companies. But in Web2 VC, basic practices exist—like annual compensation benchmarking. You tell founders: “Here’s how your pay compares to peers, so we recommend more equity to keep you motivated.” We assess COO and CTO compensation and provide benchmarks. This is standard in Web2 but not yet common in crypto investing.
So helping founders set fair compensation—for themselves and their teams—and ensuring they hire and incentivize the right talent is one final way VCs can significantly impact portfolio companies.
The Rise of DePIN Energy
Laser
In the past six months, from my observation, energy appears to be the hottest among all DePIN subfields. Several companies—including Daylight, Glow, Fuse, and our own Starpower—have raised new rounds, some with substantial amounts. As an early investor in energy DePIN, what are your thoughts on these fundraisings and the performance of energy DePIN in this bull cycle? Could energy DePIN become the next Helium-like success story?
Sal
It’s fantastic to see this momentum. I know many remain skeptical about DePIN energy, but we were fortunate to get involved early with the three companies you mentioned—Starpower, Daylight, and Glow. Now, later-stage investors are recognizing these companies are ready to efficiently deploy $5M, $10M, or even $15M to scale their networks.
This is exciting because energy is a very long-term bet. These networks take years to mature and integrate with traditional energy systems—their ambitions are huge. I’m thrilled you’ve secured funding to keep building over the coming years. I believe this is just the beginning.
I wouldn’t be surprised if by 2025, funding rounds grow from $3M or $5M to $10M, $20M, or even $50M. The energy sector offers many tangible investment avenues—buying assets directly or using credit instruments to drive growth.
Overall, I believe this capital will be well spent on product development and network expansion. Soon, people will recognize decentralized wireless and decentralized energy as the two dominant DePIN verticals, while other categories strive to catch up and prove themselves in similar ways.
Laser
What factors contributed to the rise of DePIN energy? For me, especially in the U.S., it’s mainly the surge in photovoltaic (PV) installations creating more strain on local grids. At the same time, AI advancements over the past two years have driven data center construction, increasing volatility on both supply and demand sides. I think that’s why DePIN energy is so hot right now. I believe DePIN energy could become a highly promising field capable of attracting significant traditional capital.
Sal
Yes, I completely agree. Just like telecom networks, power grids are failing globally. Now, even developed nations are feeling the impact, prompting awareness and action. As we see the U.S. grid continue to fail under AI-driven and other demands, DePIN energy will remain in the spotlight.
When blackouts occur, people begin to truly grasp the importance of energy self-sufficiency—like installing local batteries.
Industry Outlook and Advice
Laser
Alright, looks like we’re running short on time. Thanksgiving is approaching, and first, I personally want to thank you for supporting us so early—back when we hadn’t even officially formed.
That’s my personal thanks. Also, thank you for your continuous support over the past two years. I really enjoy talking with you because I see you as a deeply thoughtful person focused on long-term goals—not your typical Web3 investor.
Over the past two years, I’ve probably spoken with around 400 investors, especially this month—I’ve interacted with nearly 100 via Alliance. But I believe you’re among the best. That’s my personal view. Before we wrap up, do you have any final thoughts on the industry or advice for founders? Anything you’d like to share?
Sal
First, thank you for the kind words, Laser. Getting to know you and seeing Starpower grow has been wonderful.
Finally, I want to emphasize: the power of DePIN is profound. Always view it from a long-term perspective. Whether you’re a founder or just an ordinary citizen, you can genuinely help build infrastructure and improve your community. Many don’t realize that when you install a battery, you’re not just helping yourself—you’re helping your neighbors and the entire grid.
With crypto and energy DePIN, you can clearly see the value your actions generate—and be compensated via tokens.
The more we help people understand that doing everyday things they already do—or could do—not only benefits themselves but others too, the faster this industry grows and improves lives for everyone. That’s my final message. And if you’re a founder seeking funding for a DePIN project, feel free to reach out. My email is Sal@EV3.XYZ.
Laser Alright, thank you for joining us. That’s all for today.
Sal Thank you!
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