Interview with GMGN Co-Founder: Went Through Three Phases, Didn't Plan Token Launch Well
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Interview with GMGN Co-Founder: Went Through Three Phases, Didn't Plan Token Launch Well
We don't have the mindset of aiming for grand things right from day one; we want to build something that users genuinely need, something that truly fills a gap for them.
Navigating Web3 tides with focused insightsInterviewer: Nathan, Founding Partner of 7UpDAO
Guest: Haze, Co-founder of GMGN
Nathan: What was your background before founding GMGN?
Haze:
I didn't go to college. Before entering the crypto space, I worked at a small local company. Honestly, I didn’t have any big dreams back then—I just wanted to make money. At the end of 2017, I accidentally came across a news article about Bitcoin. I didn’t really understand what it was for, but I thought I could buy a little. Then in 2018, I joined a quantitative trading firm that did grid trading, and started learning on my own. In fact, the first tutorial ever published in this industry about grid trading was written by me. Back then there was a note-taking platform called "Jianshu," where I posted some tutorials—but unfortunately, they’ve all been taken down and can no longer be found.
Nathan: There's market speculation that GMGN is backed by Phantom. Is GMGN a project incubated by Phantom?
Haze:
No, it’s not. GMGN is an independent project. It might be because some of GMGN’s early team members, including myself, previously worked at Phantom, which led to misunderstandings in the industry. I worked at Phantom for about three years, handling user growth, operations, and customer support—basically everything except coding.
Nathan: How did the idea for GMGN come about, and how did the project get started?
Haze:
We started working on GMGN in June 2023. The name GMGN stands for "Good Morning Good Night." But when we were initially exploring directions, we discussed other possibilities as well. At that time, inscriptions on the Bitcoin ecosystem were gaining popularity. A teammate asked if we should consider doing something around BRC-20.
There were already several teams building wallets or tools for BRC-20 in the market, but my initial instinct was that we shouldn’t do it. First, inscriptions don’t solve anything—they lack cultural significance or deeper meaning; essentially, they’re just carving data into Bitcoin blocks. Second, the trading experience is terrible—too slow, with poor transaction efficiency and asset issuance speed, leading to serious liquidity issues. If efficiency doesn’t improve, you can’t inflate the bubble. It will eventually die out, just like NFTs in the previous cycle.
But the core activity in crypto still revolves around asset issuance and trading. After ruling out inscriptions, my product lead and I discussed focusing instead on meme coins within the Ethereum ecosystem. So in June 2023, GMGN integrated its first chain: Ethereum, starting with the angle of “smart money tracking.” However, as everyone knows, Ethereum never truly took off in this space, so in March 2024, we shifted our focus to Solana.
Why Solana? Do you remember “She Long” (Shiba) in January 2024, Mobile (a DePIN project) in February, and Bome in March? I participated in (bought) all of them. I voted with my money, and I became convinced that the capital flow and trend for meme coins would ultimately converge on Solana. After discussing with the team—and they had done extensive research too—we all reached the same conclusion internally.
Nathan: When shifting from Ethereum to Solana, were there any potential risks you considered during the decision-making process? Were there any unforeseen risks you worried about?
Haze:
We did debate internally, mainly concerning time cost. The team worried: what if we spend another two months developing for Solana, only for Solana to fizzle out afterward? That would be a huge blow to morale. But what ultimately convinced us was this: after working on Ethereum memes for so long, we realized none of the on-chain “hunters” we saw matched the momentum emerging on Solana. So we made the decision and went all in.
Nathan: Looking at GMGN’s journey from zero to where it is now, when were the key moments of organic growth or explosive growth that made you strongly feel: yes, we bet right this time?
Haze:
First, after switching from Ethereum to the Solana ecosystem, we experienced steady growth overall—this was the first sign our strategic decision paid off. Second, in July and August 2024, we launched the “Rat Warehouse” feature, which brought noticeable organic growth and a surge in users. Around the same time, Pump.fun also started gaining traction. Third, in November 2024, Binance listed ACT and Pnut, which helped educate the broader on-chain market.
Nathan: I feel your product iteration logic is “bottom-up”—driven by real user pain points, prioritizing features based on actual needs. If a large tech company built a similar product, it might take a “top-down” approach: focusing first on making trades smoother, modularizing components, emphasizing architectural elegance and scalability, rather than iterating quickly to address user pain points.
Haze:
Yes, that reflects our team’s DNA. We never started with the mindset of immediately building something huge. Our thinking has always been: build something people actually need and will use—something that fills a real gap. Also, we naturally lacked resources from day one. We didn’t have the capacity to launch a massive project right away.
Nathan: How many people were on the team initially, and how many are there now?
Haze:
About 9 or 10 at the beginning; now over 30, mostly focused on product and engineering. Internally, I’m the co-founder. Our product lead is the CEO and founder. He oversees product; I handle sales and branding. Beyond that, we don’t manage much else—we don’t have the bandwidth.
Nathan: What proactive operational and growth strategies have you implemented?
Haze:
We precisely targeted KOLs and communities involved in “dog hunting” (“da gou”) and introduced them to GMGN. This network was something I’d accumulated over time—I’ve been on the front lines of “dog hunting” myself. I know which KOLs genuinely have skill; some of them I’ve known since the NFT era. But we didn’t approach them with affiliate commissions. These people are already highly capable of making money—they don’t rely on referral fees. What matters more to them is whether your tool helps them earn even more. So our collaboration focuses on whether we can rapidly iterate to meet their needs.
Nathan: Have you thought about GMGN’s ultimate form? Where does today’s GMGN stand along the path toward that final vision?
Haze:
We don’t really think about an “ultimate form,” because things move too fast on-chain. We only focus on what feature to ship next week. For our team, every decision centers on: can this feature be built? Can this thing be done? If I think yes but the product team says no, we debate it, then decide whether to proceed.
Nathan: How do you view revenue structure? Will you issue a token?
Haze:
Currently, our only source of revenue is transaction fees. If future competition intensifies, we’ll reconsider whether to engage in price wars. But for now, changing our revenue model isn’t a priority.
As for launching a token, honestly, we’re still debating internally and haven’t reached a final decision. One major concern is that users might start caring more about the token’s price than actually using our product. If product stickiness becomes irrelevant because of token speculation, we see that as a net loss.
Nathan: What lessons did you learn from the past battle among NFT marketplaces—even though NFTs are now fading?
Haze:
Whether OpenSea, Blur, or others in that competitive landscape, I think the core issue wasn’t about launching tokens—it was about complacency toward user needs. You don’t have to launch a token, but you must improve your product and prioritize user demands. Once users get used to a platform, switching is hard—how bad would the product need to become to force them to leave? Take BitMEX, the earliest derivatives exchange in crypto. Back when I traded, its interface hadn’t changed in years. I remember community members asking for a mobile app or UI improvements, but they ignored all feedback. Now look at them—from leader in derivatives to nearly irrelevant. Any innovator or market leader falls when they stop listening to users.
Nathan: How do you maintain hunger—for yourself and your team? Besides GMGN, what sectors or opportunities are you watching lately?
Haze:
You have to keep exploring new things without bias. Whenever something feels fresh, go try it. If you happen to spot an unmet user need, consider building a solution.
Besides GMGN, I’m particularly interested in PayFi. I believe cryptocurrency cross-border payments can solve real problems, but I haven’t figured out the optimal implementation model or entry point yet. It’s challenging, and I need more time to think. But even if I don’t build it myself, clarifying the problem and arriving at an answer would still be pretty cool.
Nathan: When do you think on-chain trading volume will surpass CEX volumes? What major industry trends do you foresee in the coming years?
Haze:
I believe the next four years will be the golden age of the crypto market. Trump issuing a token while serving as U.S. president indirectly legitimizes crypto—it’s no longer seen as gray-market activity. Additionally, Elon Musk, a well-known crypto supporter, is interacting frequently with Trump—a phenomenon unprecedented in crypto history. Therefore, these four years under Trump’s administration represent a golden window, and the most liquid period ahead.
Right now, on-chain trading volume stands at $130 billion. In November 2024, it was only $40 billion—just two months ago. From $40B to $130B in such a short time. Within the next year, on-chain trading volume is very likely to exceed $1 trillion—surpassing centralized exchange volumes—and bring forth even greater wealth effects.
Nathan: By the way, what year were you born, and what’s your zodiac sign? Outside of work, what do you usually do?
Haze:
I was born in August 1987, a Leo. I’ve been in Singapore for four years now. Two years ago, I took the MBTI test and scored as an introvert. These days, in my free time, I enjoy sunbathing, sweating it out, and playing tennis with a coach.
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