Interview with HOPE Founder: From PayPal to HOPE, Experience and Persistence on the Entrepreneurial Journey
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Interview with HOPE Founder: From PayPal to HOPE, Experience and Persistence on the Entrepreneurial Journey
When you're inexperienced, you may hit walls everywhere, but your past experiences and knowledge will gradually accumulate behind you, quietly pushing you forward into the future.
Navigating Web3 tides with focused insightsHost: TokenDance Builder Gu Liang
Transcription: TokenDance Builder luvya
TokenDance invited Flex Yang, former founder of Paybox and HOPE, to the DeHero series.
Throughout this conversation, he repeatedly emphasized "connecting the dots"—everything happens for a reason. Though Paybox's collapse now seems disastrous, as its founder and largest creditor, he stated that without the challenges Paybox faced, there would be no HOPE or HOPE’s promising future.
Regarding the HOPE project, he clarified that HOPE aims to contribute to world peace. He also noted that while HOPE starts with ETH, it will eventually adopt broader transmission mechanisms.
For aspiring entrepreneurs, his advice is: never underestimate someone due to their youth or inexperience. Early setbacks accumulate into invaluable experience that quietly propels you forward. All you need to do is persist and be willing to give, without fixating on short-term gains or losses.
He shared insights from winning a global startup competition during his first venture, revealed the key reasons behind Paybox’s rise to a $2 billion valuation in under five years, and responded to the notion that “HOPE is the Hong Kong dollar of crypto.”
Below is a recap of the highlights from that evening’s space:
Early Experiences
TokenDance: When did you first get involved in blockchain? What was your journey before founding Paybox?
Flex: My entry into cryptocurrency came through a mix of coincidences during a JD Finance incubator program.
Before Paybox, beyond entrepreneurship, I’d like to share my early academic journey. I’m from Dali, Yunnan. As a child, I was deeply curious about physics, always asking "why" to uncover the universe’s mysteries. After college entrance exams, I ended up enrolling at City University of Hong Kong—not in physics, but in business. That shift exposed me to finance and commerce, sparking my first entrepreneurial attempt. I advanced through multiple rounds and won a global startup competition, earning praise from judges and igniting my lasting passion for entrepreneurship. Later, I joined PwC, returned to Beijing to launch a startup, and secured a lead investment from Lightspeed China.
That university-era startup competition profoundly shaped me. One judge later helped me land a job at PwC in auditing. Though I started with basic tasks like meeting minutes and cash flow checks, the experience deepened my understanding of “toxic leverage” and how financial crises unfold.
Coming back to blockchain, it was late 2017—the peak of crypto’s boom. It felt like “when God closes a door, He opens a window.”
TokenDance: Why did you choose the crypto financial services sector?
Flex: Most choices stem from serendipity, timing, and market trends—not one single factor. Even when inexperienced and facing rejection, past experiences gradually accumulate. When new challenges arise, they propel you forward. Looking back, many aspects guiding today’s DeFi projects were learned during Paybox’s restructuring.
I chose crypto financial services largely due to insights from studying government bonds. In finance, exchange rates and interest rates are crucial. Interest rates, in particular, are simple: money has different values over time. For example, if I have 5 million RMB today, its future value depends on decisions made in between—those decisions carry the cost of time.
While exploring markets, I noticed no one offered interest rate services, yet in traditional finance, this space is vast. That gap led me to focus on crypto financial services.
TokenDance: Your Twitter bio says “Hope the Light Be With You.” What do you see as the guiding light for entrepreneurs?
Flex: Entering web3, I believe it brings a different kind of hope (HOPE). The current web2.0 world feels too heavy; web3.0 allows us to break free from the pre-set paths of previous generations. Historically, tribal societies allowed intra-tribe marriage. With agriculture and technology, transferable assets emerged, requiring inheritance—leading to family and supply chains. The steam and electrical ages transformed landlord-farmer dynamics into communist-worker relationships. Today, in the big data era, data is the new production asset—not land or capital—and data ownership has become both simple and critical.
When using TikTok on web2.0, users first accept platform terms to register. Many mistakenly think their personal account represents themselves, but it actually only represents what the platform owns of you. Thus, data rights grow increasingly important. We aim to restore individual sovereignty—ownership over one’s own data. This demands new production relations. Our ongoing exploration of tokennomics embodies such relations—a social experiment that gives ordinary people hope. That’s why I named the project HOPE.
Internally, we debated slogans. “My heart is bright” resonated most, inspiring “Hope the Light Be With You.” It draws from Wang Yangming’s philosophy of “unity of knowledge and action”—knowledge is the beginning of action, action the completion of knowledge. Only by integrating thought and practice can we achieve balance. If we don’t follow our inner convictions, our actions lose meaning.
You asked what lights the entrepreneur’s path. For me, two things.
First is the sense of achievement from winning that first startup competition—it fueled my continued drive. Today, when I speak with investors, many cite my persistence as a reason to back me. Challenges persist, but perseverance is key. Cut through the fog, do meaningful work, and avoid blind anxiety.
Second is Steve Jobs’ Stanford speech. While many remember “Stay hungry, stay foolish,” the line that moved me most was “connecting the dots.” He explained dropping out of college, auditing calligraphy classes—skills seemingly useless at the time. Yet ten years later, while designing Apple’s first computer, those lessons surfaced instantly, enabling beautiful fonts and spacing.
So often, don’t dwell on immediate gains or losses. On the entrepreneurial or life journey, just give first. It may not pay off tomorrow or next year—perhaps in 10, 20, or even 50 years—but those you once helped may return the favor. It’s unpredictable. You can’t foresee the future; only in hindsight do connections emerge. Dots link into lines, forming who you are and what you accomplish. Follow your heart, do right, don’t obsess over fairness—each act builds your future path, leading you further than imagined.
Take Paybox’s bankruptcy last year—it looks bad now, but in ten years, we might realize: without that collapse, there would be no HOPE, no beacon guiding people into web3.0 to explore new production relations, no chance to challenge powerful entities. I love the saying “Never underestimate the young and poor.” Many once attacked CZ, only to see him grow immensely strong. From a long-term view, hardships often bring greater rewards.
About the Project
TokenDance: HOPE is based on a long-term bullish outlook for BTC. If BTC experiences severe volatility and selling pressure, preventing HOPE from building excess reserves, how would HOPE respond?
Flex: HOPE uses BTC and ETH as reserves because they represent crypto’s overall trend. Other tokens are minor (except USDT and USDC, which are historical artifacts). If we treat HOPE as a de-pegged stablecoin today, it wasn’t de-pegged in the last cycle.
On your question, long-term, I believe BTC prices will rise. Its price hinges on three factors: Fed policy, U.S. fiscal policy, and geopolitical risk. The looser the first two, the higher BTC climbs; the greater the third, the same. All three will intensify over the next 2–3 years, so I remain bullish on BTC.
If this holds, HOPE will quickly achieve excess reserves. If not, it’s still acceptable—users retain their BTC and earned yields, so they aren’t disadvantaged. If BTC faces massive volatility and sell-offs, that’s an industry-wide issue to address.
TokenDance: Recently, Hong Kong narratives gained traction, with some arguing crypto markets are now tightly linked to macroeconomic cycles. How do you view this? How does this interplay affect HOPE? What role does HOPE envision in crypto’s mass adoption?
Flex: I agree—it’s not just macroeconomics but the start of entanglement with geopolitics. HOPE was initially inspired by Balaji Srinivasan’s book *The Network State*. He posits that global politics will evolve into a multipolar system, notably tri-polar: China, the U.S., and a tech-based pole.
In concrete terms, this means technological capability combined with U.S. influence and the struggle between encryption sovereignty and individual sovereignty within tech. My takeaway: a sustained dynamic of mutual disruption lies ahead. The first two poles inevitably clash over values and interests. In this conflict, tech representatives stand to benefit.
China’s foreign reserves are mostly U.S. Treasuries, making “de-dollarization” a long-term goal. Where does Hong Kong fit? Given mainland China’s framework, de-dollarization efforts include accelerating central bank digital currency (CBDC) rollout—Plan A being RMB internationalization via new payment networks. CBDCs are positive, but the RMB’s global credibility still lags, requiring generational effort to build trust.
Plan B involves traditional stablecoins pegged to the dollar but not dollar-denominated—like the Hong Kong dollar. Among such stablecoins, HKD dominates, with four times the scale of USDT. Recall how Hong Kong connected China to the world during sanctions from 1990–1997. I believe it will play a vital role again in de-dollarization.
Should greater conflict arise, HKD could face sanctions—prompting Plan C: cryptocurrencies. Some see Hong Kong’s move as speculative, but I view it as long-term strategy.
In the future, amid mutual distrust and non-recognition, crypto could serve as a neutral tool, reconnecting the world. That’s our small aspiration—for world peace.
TokenDance: Media suggests: “HOPE will initially be backed by BTC and ETH. If BTC is gold, ETH is the dollar, and Ethereum’s ecosystem is America, then HOPE becomes a currency backed by gold and dollars—like the Hong Kong dollar. Built on HOPE, it could become Hong Kong’s equivalent in crypto.” What’s your take?
Flex: This stems from our personal understanding of the HKD. This year marks 40 years since HKD pegged to USD, and 30 years since HKMA’s establishment. HKMA formed after Hong Kong’s handover, coming after the peg. The core of HKD’s peg lies in holding USD as reserves.
Both we and HKD embrace decentralization. Though HKD holds USD reserves, these are distributed—not solely in the U.S., but also in the UK, China, and elsewhere.
Second, distribution is decentralized. Most know HKD comes in two forms: notes of 10 HKD or less are legal tender issued by HKMA. Notes above 10 HKD are banknotes issued by three banks—Bank of China, HSBC, and Standard Chartered—with wording like “promise to pay.”
Third, the transfer network is diverse.
Similarly, HOPE’s self-custody is decentralized. Second, issuance is decentralized. Third, for broader transmission, we start on ETH but won’t limit ourselves to it (due to high fees), expanding to other networks like BRC-20 and BRC-30.
Looking Ahead
TokenDance: AI is booming, with many VCs shifting from web3 to AI. How do you view this? Is web3 in a winter? Any advice for DeFi founders?
Flex: Past speculation was excessive. But principles like “perseverance matters” and “don’t hesitate to give first” still apply. I believe everything unfolds as it should. 2018 was a winter; March 2020’s Bitcoin crash was icy. Now isn’t winter yet—just a cycle awaiting renewal. Ancient Chinese philosophy speaks of yin and yang. As songs say: without storms, no rainbows. The revolution isn’t over—we must keep striving.
Regarding AI: we haven’t seen AI reach the next level—where it develops sovereign consciousness. Would such AI recognize government-led ledgers? Unlikely. It would favor crypto’s open, fairer systems where ownership is possible. I see crypto and AI as inseparable.
Audience Q&A
Audience 1 - luca: Hi Flex, SEC recently sued Coinbase and moved to freeze Binance.US assets. Reports mentioned HOPE anchors BTC via Coinbase. If Coinbase is sanctioned, affecting HOPE, what safeguards exist?
Flex: We’ve considered this. First, HOPE’s BTC is held under Coinbase’s European entity, not Coinbase US—given higher U.S. risks. Second, we use segregated cold wallet accounts at Coinbase, isolated from regulatory and bankruptcy risks. Crucially, we’re developing automation for protocol-level custody. Why isn’t it live yet? First, protocol custody has security vulnerabilities needing thorough testing. Second, market demand prioritizes safety—off-regulatory-framework solutions aren’t top priorities yet. This gives us time to build self-custody reserve systems, expected by Q3–Q4.
Fundamentally, this doesn’t fully resolve security—control still lies with the team, not the community. We use centralized teams to accelerate progress, aiming to transition control to the community within five years. Only then, when team voting power falls below market voting power, will HOPE truly become a decentralized stablecoin.
Audience 2 - luvya: Hi Flex, your Twitter says “my heart is bright,” and you mentioned Wang Yangming and valuing friendship. Wang Yangming said, “Though天地is vast, if one harbors goodness and conscience, even commoners can become sages.” His final words were, “My heart is bright, what more is there to say?” Do you read his philosophy? What’s your take?
Flex: I haven’t read much—mostly stories about him. As you noted, ancient expressions differ from modern ones. Today, why are nations so divided? Leaders from the U.S., China, and Europe all experienced trauma in the 1960s, breeding distrust. I admire Wang Yangming’s attitude—analyzing root causes to find solutions. That mindset is worth learning.
Audience 2 - luvya: Also, you left Paybox by end-2021 and had already started a new project when Paybox collapsed. Why return?
Flex: As I said earlier, multiple factors played a role. Looking back—at Paybox clients, former teammates—I know many advised distancing myself. But since I built Paybox with their support, I chose to return, using my experience to guide better outcomes—whether liquidation or restructuring.
Note: The above content does not constitute investment advice.
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