Exclusive Interview with the Founder of DWF Labs: Innovators Don't Follow Orthodoxy, the "Nokia Era" of Market Makers Is Long Gone
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Exclusive Interview with the Founder of DWF Labs: Innovators Don't Follow Orthodoxy, the "Nokia Era" of Market Makers Is Long Gone
We embrace controversy, and take pride in it.
Navigating Web3 tides with focused insightsInterviewer: Kean, Foresight News
Interviewee: Andrei Grachev, DWF Labs
Compiled & Translated by: Peng SUN, Foresight News
"I have five Chinese tattoos," Andrei Grachev said with spontaneous joy and excitement when discussing non-U.S. markets.
As a Russian, Andrei Grachev embodies the wild spirit of his people. Yet his crypto investments show no identity conflict between Europe and Asia—instead, he has firmly chosen the East. In the world of crypto, Asia has long been known for trading, speculation, and hype. Grachev’s story fits perfectly into this narrative—he started as a trader, moved into market making, high-frequency trading, and investing, and firmly believes that Asian and Middle Eastern markets will drive the next wave.
Looking back at 2022, both DWF Labs and Andrei Grachev were undeniable centers of controversy. How did they source tens of millions of dollars in monthly investments? Were they manipulating secondary markets? Excluded by traditional players like Wintermute due to unconventional market-making methods? Wave after wave of criticism came, but Grachev never cared. He believes he is simply challenging tradition—not breaking laws or doing anything wrong.
In Grachev's view, DWF Labs is a one-stop solution capable of fulfilling all needs—not just offering single-sided market-making services:
Today, DWF Labs is a large-scale high-frequency trading firm, market maker, VC, OTC desk, incubator, ecosystem builder, fundraiser, event brand, TVL provider, DeFi taker, advisor, listing agent, HR support, PR/marketing agency, KOL network, RFQ (request-for-quote) platform, and more...
Grachev claims that over the past 16 months, DWF Labs has provided these services to approximately 350 Web3 projects among the top 1,000 by market cap on CoinMarketCap. While Wintermute’s founder dismissed them, the fighter within Grachev refused to back down. He publicly responded: "We are controversial—and we're proud of it":
"It would be shameful for me to join ranks with so-called 'legitimate' market makers who take loans, do nothing, dump tokens, or profit from call options. They’re just jealous. We dare to take risks, stand out, reshape the order of the crypto world, and raise the bar for market makers."
If crypto is about breaking free from traditional nation-state narratives, why can't DWF Labs break the traditional order of crypto market makers? If crypto keeps reconstructing itself without establishing new frameworks, why can't DWF Labs deconstruct the past and build its own narrative? Besides, I’ve also heard numerous Web3 projects express demand for “one-stop” services.
In this interview, Grachev revealed DWF Labs’ organizational structure, business lines, funding sources, risk management strategies, investment logic and style, bull-market plans, latest developments regarding the potential acquisition of FTX assets, and his views on the global crypto market. Regardless of their operational model or controversies, objectively speaking, DWF Labs provided crucial support to many projects during the bear market.
1. The Rise of a “Celebrity” Market Maker
Andrei Grachev worked in logistics from August 2010 until 2014, when he began trading in traditional financial markets, marking the start of his trading career. In 2016, Grachev reportedly bought his first ETH, which enabled him to reap massive gains during the 2017 bull run. His experience founding a crypto trading company and serving as CEO of Huobi Russia accelerated his growth.
Foresight News: How did you transition from logistics into the crypto space? Any key turning points or interesting stories to share? How have those experiences influenced your current ventures?
Andrei Grachev: I entered the logistics industry at age 18 and worked there for eight years, starting trading in traditional markets around 2014. Later, I shifted into e-commerce, which gave me more time to study financial markets. Actually, my experience in logistics and e-commerce didn’t directly impact my crypto trading much, but it shaped my management skills and work style. Since 2010, I’ve been working remotely with large distributed teams. Both industries helped me develop a big-picture mindset.
In 2016, a friend in London told me about Ethereum mining—that was my entry point into crypto. The 2017 bull market was a major turning point, when ETH surged from $7 to $350. We sold some ETH and officially launched our crypto journey. At first, I co-founded Crypsis Blockchain Holding with friends to explore the crypto market—an excellent opportunity to gain experience and learn how things work. I also joined a community group called RACIB, though it wasn’t a formal job. It captured part of my interest, but I soon realized it looked like a self-regulatory body but wasn’t truly one. After that, I never worked in such organizations again. Back then, I managed funds and offered advice for friends and family, eventually becoming CEO of Huobi Russia.
Huobi Russia was my most important experience. That’s where I met the team from Digital Wave Finance (DWF), and we became close friends. As the fastest-growing and largest Huobi Cloud partner, we even received two awards from Huobi Global, helping me build strong connections in China and Southeast Asia. Although I stepped down as CEO in 2019, I continued working there as a partner until 2021. Eventually, we sold Huobi Russia back to Huobi and made a significant profit. Before launching DWF Labs, we created VRM.trade, conducting proprietary high-frequency trading on tier-two CEXs, learning many product and technical details along the way.
Foresight News: That’s quite an interesting journey. So why did you establish DWF Labs? How did your team come together? Where are your members based, and how do you coordinate work?
Andrei Grachev: DWF Labs was founded in 2022, although Digital Wave Finance existed earlier since 2018. Initially, I helped Digital Wave Finance negotiate better fees and terms with exchanges. During that time, I met my current partners Zac, Eugene, and Heng, who greatly supported me in the Asian market. When discussing collaboration with Digital Wave Finance, I proposed launching a market-making business to my Asian friends—that became the starting point for DWF Labs. We’re mainly based in Asia and Switzerland, so remote work has always been our norm. Daily communication happens via Telegram, Zoom, and Google Meet.
Foresight News: What is the departmental setup and composition of DWF Labs? What’s the relationship between OTC, DWF Ventures, and market making shown on your website? How is the team structured?
Andrei Grachev: We have multiple departments offering various products, including OTC trading. Here, we provide seamless transactions and settlement services for tokens, serving individuals or entities meeting our KYB, KYC, and AML requirements. Typically, token settlements are straightforward—we simply offer clients the option to sell tokens, simplifying decision-making. Currently, several team members handle this, and we’re enhancing settlement capacity to allow more users to access real-time pricing across multiple clearing engines.
For projects initially engaging with our OTC services, our goal is to transition them to other offerings such as market making or DWF Ventures. Additionally, we’ve built the DWF ecosystem to foster interaction among different projects and entrepreneurs, enabling them to explore new investment opportunities and increase trading activity.
However, these three areas operate independently. The market-making division functions as a separate technical trading unit, completely disconnected from the sales team—even located in different countries—with a primary focus on proprietary technical trading strategies using specific tokens. We also engage in project incubation and nurturing. Currently, about 60 companies in angel and seed stages are in the DWF Ventures portfolio, receiving our backing. These projects haven’t yet listed on exchanges, but we firmly believe that once the timing is right, most will succeed on exchanges. DWF Ventures works closely with the OTC team, and their roles overlap somewhat, requiring effective communication to ensure successful transactions.
2. Is All the Money Just Blown in by the Wind?
Perhaps the bull markets of 2017 and 2022 filled Grachev’s pockets, but is all that money just blown in by the wind? And if the wind brings it, the wind can also blow it away. Let’s examine Grachev’s philosophy on earning and managing risk.
Foresight News: Your frequent large-scale investments have stunned observers. Many of us—including myself—are curious: what is DWF Labs’ source of funding? Have you ever raised capital?
Andrei Grachev: We’ve never conducted fundraising and currently have no plans to do so. DWF has maintained solid financial health, especially profiting significantly during the 2020–2022 bull market. While continuously generating profits, we reinvested those earnings. Although I can’t disclose exact figures, I assure you we have the financial capacity to comfortably invest tens of millions of dollars monthly into startups. Our goal isn’t to invest $10 million to make $200,000—we’d rather invest $10 million, stay patient, and aim to earn $50 million.
Foresight News: Then how do you manage tokens and control risks?
Andrei Grachev: We distribute tokens through CEXs while strictly adhering to risk protocols. Our standards for risk management are extremely high—and there’s good reason. Making money is one thing; protecting those gains is equally critical. Exchanges get hacked, protocols get exploited, market makers get attacked—we don’t want to become another statistic. Therefore, we adopt risk-mitigation solutions.
According to our risk strategy, part of our funds are held on CEXs, while others are stored using custody services like Fireblocks, which we assess as providing robust security. We also use on-chain multisig wallets when necessary. As for BTC, most remains in cold storage because BTC doesn’t require frequent transfers to exchanges.
3. The “Nokia Era” of Market Makers Is Fading Away
DWF Labs has chosen a unique path—so long as they remain compliant, let the critics complain. "DWF Labs is a one-stop solution for everything," is how Andrei Grachev defines the company. Over the past 16 months, they’ve delivered this suite of services to roughly 350 Web3 projects ranked among the top 1,000 by market cap on CoinMarketCap. They aim to compete with the “iPhone,” not the “Nokia.” As Grachev puts it, DWF Labs supports portfolio companies in South Korea—a market notoriously difficult for many—but does so compliantly. “Be creative, not biased.”
Currently, DWF Labs has invested in 470 projects, with 70% focused on DeFi, decentralized derivatives, GameFi, and SocialFi, while the remainder includes higher-market-cap coins and memecoins.
Foresight News: This year, your hybrid “investment + market making” model has kept you at the center of public debate. Since March, traditional crypto market makers like Wintermute have expressed disdain for your approach, claiming you’re merely “trading,” not “investing.” What kind of relationship do you maintain with these traditional firms? Are there any business ties?
Andrei Grachev: I don’t think there are many avenues for cooperation with them. The only possibility might be hiring some of their talent for DWF. But in business, it’s like being a media pioneer like yourself—if another outlet starts criticizing your interview style as too unorthodox, would you really care? Probably not. You’d likely feel pleased—you’re innovating, attracting attention.
For us, the key is legality. As long as we operate correctly and legally, if a method proves effective, we’ll adopt it—regardless of outside opinions or competitors’ complaints.
Foresight News: Secondary markets also suspect you of market manipulation. Data firms and media outlets report on your on-chain fund flows, which have become a signal influencing institutional and retail investors’ decisions. What’s your take on this?
Andrei Grachev: I frequently encounter such discussions. In terms of trading volume, we process billions of dollars daily. However, relative to overall market volume, our share is relatively small. Importantly, we don’t engage in hedging trades. While media and people may speculate, we do create influence. When people observe our actions, they may choose to buy or sell—but those are their own decisions. We cannot control that. We play the long game, not the short one.
Trading and investing in crypto inherently involve depositing and withdrawing assets from exchanges—it’s fundamental to our operations. We don’t participate in trades conditioned on market manipulation; our approach remains distinct.
Market manipulation holds no appeal for us. As the industry moves toward greater regulation and legitimacy, our focus is on long-term strategy, not short-term gains. Whether others follow or oppose our moves is up to them. Our principle is to strategically navigate the ever-changing market landscape over the long term.
Foresight News: I noticed your tweet responding to Coin98 Analytics, where you mentioned their list of 174 projects represents 40% of DWF Labs’ total portfolio—implying around 435 projects. What types of projects do you typically invest in, and what different strategies do you apply to different projects?
Andrei Grachev: Around 70% of our portfolio focuses on long-term narratives. This includes our emphasis on DeFi, decentralized derivatives (such as perpetual options), and heavy investments in emerging sectors like GameFi and SocialFi.
The remaining portion of our portfolio allocates to specific coins—some with high market share, others simply popular. We also reserve a small fraction for short-term narratives, such as certain memecoins. The appeal of memecoins isn’t groundbreaking technology, but cultural significance. They represent a cultural phenomenon, and riding this trend pays off. When the moment comes, these memecoins can surge dramatically—that’s precisely why we invest in this culture.
Foresight News: You’ve said in multiple instances that investing via direct token purchases helps projects in “distress,” implying these projects are already fairly mature. Does that mean you don’t believe in founding teams? After all, seed rounds usually involve just ideas, often without even a product.
Andrei Grachev: Of course, we believe in startups. There’s a clear distinction between investing in startups versus secondary markets. Secondary markets offer data insights, traction, and trader/user interest, allowing for risk assessment and potential hedging. But startups are entirely different. It’s not about trust—it’s about risk management, considering long-term narratives like DeFi or GameFi. If a startup has a strong team, a solid product, and aligns with a long-term market narrative, it’s a good fit for investment. Success isn’t guaranteed, but you can play the game—weigh probabilities, then decide how much to allocate from your portfolio. If 90% of your portfolio consists of startups, the risk is too high. But if it’s 5% to 10%, there’s no issue. You can make small bets—even if some fail, the overall portfolio remains safe. But if one succeeds, the upside can be enormous.
That’s exactly our approach—always trusting startups, otherwise we wouldn’t collaborate. We manage risk probabilistically and optimize investment decisions accordingly.
4. More Than Capital: Confidence Matters Most in Bear Markets
Andrei Grachev emphasizes that DWF Labs’ support extends beyond capital—through DWF Ventures and technical teams, they provide further assistance to portfolio projects. For him, building confidence in the industry during bear markets is vital.
Foresight News: How do you make decisions and operate your OTC and secondary market token purchases? Beyond buying tokens, what other support do you offer to your invested projects?
Andrei Grachev: We focus not just on providing capital—that’s secondary. Anyone with cash can invest. In crypto and venture capital, money is rarely the bottleneck; quality projects usually find sufficient funding. Our edge lies in value-added services.
We have our own incubation arm to help craft market strategies, conduct research, and collaborate with KOLs, media, and local businesses. Additionally, our HR department offers recruitment solutions to help portfolio companies hire talent.
We also offer technical assistance through an internal team of about ten developers. Though currently managed by us, we plan to spin them out soon. They provide consulting, calculations, and technical expertise to our projects. Finally, we offer support in listings and market making.
Foresight News: In 2022, the crypto market suffered collapses of Three Arrows Capital, Celsius, Voyager, and FTX—the damage to the industry is immeasurable. Crypto winter set in, financial markets froze, and the global economy turned conservative. Yet DWF Labs went against the tide—supporting Binance’s Industry Recovery Fund, TON Foundation’s “rescue fund,” and even accelerating investment pace. What drove these decisions?
Andrei Grachev: Looking back at the beginning of this year, right after FTX collapsed, it was the perfect time to deploy capital. When everyone is selling, you should be buying—that’s golden rule investing. Acting boldly amid fear naturally reduces competition.
Binance’s Industry Recovery Initiative post-FTX had far-reaching impact. Our collaboration with Binance made positive contributions to the industry. For us, it’s not just about profit—it’s about restoring confidence. During turbulent times, having someone say, “Keep building—we’ll support you,” is incredibly powerful. I can say we’ve made multiple investments, provided crucial support to projects, and earned substantial returns.
Regarding the TON Foundation, we’ve invested heavily in TON—that’s no secret. It’s a long-term commitment with low capitalization, but we strongly believe in its potential, so we’ve committed tens of millions of dollars. When TON launched initiatives, we naturally stepped in to support. Whether aiding market makers or facilitating OTC deals, we support our partners across multiple fronts.
5. What Happens When the Bull Market Returns? “We’re Highly Adaptable”
Andrei says DWF Labs is highly adaptable—operating with bear-market logic while preparing for the bull market through other forms of support and investment. Meanwhile, due to a significant portion of its own funds frozen in FTX, DWF Labs plans to acquire a local FTX exchange.
Foresight News: How long will this “high-frequency” pattern of large-scale investments continue? Right now it’s a bear market—you invest via OTC to help projects in “distress.” But in a bull market, projects will have ample liquidity, potentially rendering your current strategy ineffective. Do you have plans for adjusting your investment and market strategies in the next bull cycle?
Andrei Grachev: First, we don’t only invest in distressed projects. We made a major investment in Fetch.ai—it wasn’t in distress, yet performed exceptionally well. It’s been a profitable bet, and we’ll continue supporting it.
Our efforts go beyond injecting capital—we’re building an ecosystem. Today, we’re not just selling our money, but comprehensive support, which has proven effective in closing more deals.
Last July, after 12 months of DWF Labs’ operation, I tweeted: “During this period, our portfolio reached 250 projects.” Since then, our portfolio has grown to around 470. This means we could easily close deals during the first 12 months of market hardship, and also succeeded in the following four months of a more active market. This demonstrates our adaptability across market conditions—we’re capable of thriving even when sentiment turns optimistic. Frankly, our current momentum and achievements surpass what we achieved six months ago.
Foresight News: You previously mentioned considering acquiring FTX assets. Recently, calls to revive FTX 2.0 have grown louder, and FTT’s price has surged. Have you communicated with FTX? Are you advancing this plan?
Andrei Grachev: Our lawyers are currently engaging with the FTX liquidator regarding asset matters, and progress is going smoothly. Regarding FTX 2.0, a local FTX exchange has approached us seeking our participation as a market maker. I can’t disclose which one yet, but I believe we will get involved. A significant portion of our funds are frozen on FTX, so we need to execute transactions to recover them. However, the process remains uncertain. I have no objections to FTX 2.0.
Foresight News: I once wrote a brief history of LocalBitcoins, once the world’s largest Bitcoin OTC platform. It operated for ten years before announcing shutdown this year. Its peak stemmed from several factors: bull markets, underdeveloped payment infrastructure in developing nations, and varying political, economic, and regulatory environments. Ultimately, it failed because it embraced regulation—implementing KYC eroded its original P2P anonymous privacy features. Competitors like Binance P2P seized regional markets with better functionality and user experience. So, I’m curious—how does DWF Labs’ OTC mechanism work? Which regions do you serve? How do you handle compliance? Also, can you introduce your upcoming institutional-grade OTC/RFQ platform, DWF Liquid Markets?
Andrei Grachev: I haven’t thought through too many details yet, as we’ll formally announce it when the time is right. But I’ll say this: it’s different from LocalBitcoins—more similar to Binance P2P, but with unique innovations. We’ll reveal more details when appropriate.
Foresight News: You previously mentioned DWF Labs obtained a license from Dubai Multi Commodities Centre (DMCC) and became a financial partner in its ecosystem. What operations do you plan in Dubai?
Andrei Grachev: We’ve recently applied for multiple licenses to expand into the Middle East. To ensure full compliance, we’re undergoing audits by one of the Big Four accounting firms.
Just yesterday, DWF Labs co-hosted a hackathon in DMCC, Dubai with DMCC, Bybit, and other partners. We provided funding and advisory services to startups headquartered in DMCC, UAE. That’s what we’re doing here. These efforts are already yielding positive results—even if not headline news, they’re effective.
6. All-In on the East, Embracing the Mystical Force
"I have five Chinese tattoos," Andrei Grachev said with immense pride and excitement. There’s an Eastern aura about him—perhaps his trading style aligns with Asian crypto traits, fueling his deep commitment and confidence in the East.
Foresight News: You have offices in Asia—Singapore, South Korea, Hong Kong—plus BVI and Dubai. With many Asian faces on your team, it seems you’ve long maintained close ties with the Chinese market. How do you view the Asian market? The U.S. market remains large, yet you appear to prioritize non-U.S. markets?
Andrei Grachev: The Asian market is the global leader in crypto. Nearly all leading exchanges originate from Asia—Binance, OKX, Bybit. Only Coinbase and Bitfinex are exceptions, but in trading volume, I believe Coinbase doesn’t even match some Asian platforms like Gate.io.
On regulation and compliance, the global financial landscape appears to be splitting into Eastern and Western blocs. You must choose—one cannot simultaneously achieve compliance and risk-free operations in both. Thus, we’ve centered ourselves on the East, which explains our many Asian colleagues. I love Asian culture—I even got five tattoos in China. I’ve been working with Chinese partners since 2018. This is our target market, and we enjoy operating here. The Middle East, Asia, and China—all are our core markets.
For the entire industry, I’d say development—including market making and general trading—has been impacted by the firewall between the U.S. and the rest of the world. We trade on Coinbase International Exchange, an offshore perpetual futures platform, but avoid trading on Coinbase’s spot market, as the SEC might classify us as market makers. From a risk-reward perspective, it makes no sense.
Now the world talks about Bitcoin ETFs. While news may originate from U.S. ETF approvals, the real momentum and driving force are expected to come from Asian and Middle Eastern markets, further accelerating adoption and growth.
Foresight News: Final question—recently CZ was forced to resign from Binance. What impact do you think this will have on the crypto market?
Andrei Grachev: It’s bad news, as Binance is undoubtedly the industry leader. But I don’t think the crypto landscape will change drastically because of this. In fact, U.S. regulators scored a major victory—they now have access to all of Binance’s data and user behavior. This might push users toward DeFi, as they seek more decentralized and less regulated alternatives. Exchanges unrelated to the U.S. could benefit from this shift in user behavior.
Still, I don’t think this will significantly impact Binance’s business. Binance has solidified its dominant position in crypto. While regulatory scrutiny may drive some users to other platforms, it’s unlikely to meaningfully weaken Binance’s market leadership.
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